The following is the transcript of the interview with Rep. Jim Himes, Democrat of Connecticut, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Oct. 12, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by Connecticut Congressman Jim Himes. He is the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee. Good to have you here. You are a House lawmaker in town, but I want to talk to you about your intelligence portfolio. The Financial Times is reporting, right now, that the United States is helping Ukraine to target Russian oil installations. In other words, hitting Russia right in that pocketbook. What can you say in regard to how the Trump administration is changing its policy? Are they truly now standing up to Vladimir Putin?
REP. JIM HIMES: Yeah, not really, right. We’ve heard now for months that we’re two weeks away. I think that’s the President’s terminology, used several times now over many months from really cracking down on Russia. And of course, you know, there are bipartisan bills in the Congress right now which would impose very severe sanctions on the Russians that would do a lot to stop the export of their oil, which, of course, is the fuel that drives their war machine, the dollars that drive their war machine. Those have not been moved forward by the White House, so it’s hard to say that President Trump is doing anything other than what he’s done forever when he was president, which is trying to sort of have it, have it both ways. Now, I will say, and I can’t get into particular attacks or particular authorities that the government has, but these attacks on the refineries have had the effect of reducing Russia’s ability to produce gasoline and other stuff almost by 20%. That really, really hurts the Russians. And I will tell you, again, without being specific, that I wish the President would be much more aggressive with respect to turning off those taps and with respect to arming the Ukrainians, but he hasn’t taken any meaningful step back- steps back from the Biden administration, so we’ve at least got that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, it’s not so much that he’s doing more, it’s that, perhaps, he’s freeing up more to be done by the Ukrainian military? Not putting the same restrictions on them that he had been? Is that fair to say?
REP. HIMES: Well, again, I don’t want to get- I don’t want to get specific with respect to authorities, but, you know, his rhetoric has always been skeptical of the Ukrainians and bizarrely friendly to Vladimir Putin. I’m telling you that his actions to date have been insufficient, by the way, just as Biden’s actions were insufficient, but they haven’t been consistent with this very skeptical rhetoric. There, I haven’t noticed a dramatic change, pullback, if you will, from the Biden administration with respect to our assistance to the Ukrainians.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I ask you because Zelensky and Trump spoke twice in the past 48 hours, which is notable. Venezuela: There are close to- the numbers we’ve seen are like 6,000 or so service people in the Southern Command region of operations. There have been four US strikes on vessels. The US says 21 people killed. You have been asking for legal justification from the administration to explain their actions, and you did it along with the Head of Foreign Affairs, Armed Services, Judiciary, and Homeland Security. Can you, in any way, compel more information sharing so the US knows what is being done?
REP. HIMES: I mean one of the many troubling aspects about these lethal attacks in the Caribbean against supposedly drug-dealing boats. Now, we don’t know that, because, unlike our counterterrorism programs, the Congress is not being told who were on these boats, how they were identified, what the intelligence was, totally different thing. Congress is being told nothing on this. And that’s okay, apparently, with the Republican majorities in the House and the Senate. It’s not okay with me. I’m going to leave a little bit of a crack in the door here, because, again, the White House has not shared what they believe their legal justification is. They did put out a memo. I will tell you that, based on what I know now and the reading of that memo, these are illegal killings. They are illegal killings because the notion that the United States, and this is what the administration says is their justification, is involved in an armed conflict with any drug dealers- Venezuelan drug dealers is ludicrous. It wouldn’t stand up in a single court of law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They say they’ve designated them as terrorists, therefore —
REP. HIMES: Doesn’t matter. There’s lots of people who have been designated terrorists. That does not automatically give the authority to take lethal action. So, their legal justifications are laughable and what- and again, unless they want to share more than what they’ve shared with me, these are illegal killings. And what amazes me about that is that the President, of course, thanks to this very compliant Supreme Court, has been given absolute immunity. But what about the Secretary of Defense? What about the Deputy? What about everybody else in that chain of command, right on down to the guy who’s pulling a trigger that results in the deaths of people without clear legal authority? What about them? Test me on this. It wouldn’t surprise me if, in the next couple of years, there are presidential pardons offered to that entire chain of command, because it is not at all clear, well, it is getting increasingly clear, that these are that these are illegal killings. Setting aside the law for a second here. Margaret, you know, I don’t know this because they’re not telling Congress anything, but the press has all sorts of rumors that the first attack was on a boat that had turned around and was fleeing. Even if this were a legitimate military action, which it’s not, because the Congress hasn’t approved it, firing on a fleeing enemy would be a violation of the laws of armed conflict. My Republican friends are saying, but these are terrible people doing terrible things. Okay, I don’t disagree with you on that, but are we now in the business of killing people who are doing bad things without authority?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you- are you saying that these were not lawful orders? That the military was- because what we constantly hear from our military leaders is, do not worry. Our United States military is going to be reliant on the Constitution and only carry out lawful orders. Are you saying that these members of the military who were the trigger pullers did something else?
REP. HIMES: I am saying that, to all appearances, these are illegal killings. And you can get 1,000 different lawyers of both parties on this show to tell you that, at best, the legal authorities are questionable. So I am fascinated by why the chain of command is so confident that the lethal activities they’re taking are legal. They don’t look that way to me. And this is a big deal, right? I mean, I understand that right now we’re in a very polarized environment, so it’s going to be very hard for a Republican colleague of mine to make the statements that I have just made. But, the worm turns, Margaret. You know, in 1968 we prosecuted, convicted of murder a lieutenant, Lieutenant Cawley, because he and his unit killed, probably, hundreds of people in My Lai and Vietnam, and there were prosecutions after that. So I’m a little fascinated about why that chain of command is so comfortable undertaking killings just because the Trump administration says, oh, it’s okay. Not an administration that is known for their adherence to the law or to the Constitution.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that is a huge topic, and I want to continue covering that with you. But, I need to ask you as well about the shutdown and the cost in your home state. We saw from just USAA, which is a lender and a bank, to many people who work for the federal government, they said that they’ve had to provide $150 million in no-interest loans to 45,000 people in just over 48 hours. That’s a cash-crunch for a lot of people. What’s happening in Connecticut?
REP. HIMES: So, I mean, I will tell you a Connecticut story. The day after the shutdown went into effect, I went up to see the National Guard at Windsor Locks Airport. We were deploying 500 Connecticut National Guard members to the Middle East. These were 22, 23 year olds. None of them are wealthy. None of them are going to get paid on October 15th. And I heard the Vice President on your show say that this is about the Democrats. The American people understand that the Republicans control the White House, they control the Senate, and they control the house. So when the Vice President United States is saying, this is all about Chuck Schumer, who the American people rejected in the last election, I think the American people see through that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the White House seems to be trying to take that issue off the table. The President posts on social media that they’re going to repurpose funds somehow to pay the military, at least for this pay cycle. Is that sustainable? Is that legal?
REP. HIMES: Well, probably not. Again, we just had a little conversation about the White House’s understanding of United States law, which is- which is- which is pretty tentative to say the best. The Speaker of the House, because I think to pay the military during a shutdown would require legislation. The Speaker of the House has taken that off the table. So, I mean, is Donald Trump going to say a bunch of stuff? Yes, he’s going to say a bunch of stuff. But, I don’t see anything moving. The house is, as Senator Murphy pointed out, the house is on vacation. So no, I don’t think that that’s very likely.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Speaker says that if the government wasn’t shut down, the military be getting a pay if Democrats voted for the short term funding bill. But, no one’s working right now, as you just said. We’ll have to continue to track this. Thank you, Congressman Himes. We’ll be back in a moment.
